Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/04

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Request for comment on public domain policy

Hi! I’ve just proposed a significant change to Wikimedia Commons’ public domain policy. Feel free to check it out and vote. Thank you! — gabldotink [ talk | contribs | global account ] 00:00, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. I think we can close this. --Enhancing999 (talk) 11:12, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Enhancing999 (talk) 11:12, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Commons Gazette 2024-04

Volunteer staff changes

In March 2024, 2 sysops and 1 checkuser were removed. Currently, there are 185 sysops and 3 checkusers.

We thank them for their service.

Edited by RZuo (talk).

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 22:36, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

OGG vs OGA

Are .ogg files no longer supported on Commons? I tried to rename an OGG file, and the interface forced an extension change to OGA as part of the move. I've tested the interface response to other attempted moves, and it auto-forces a change to the file's extension from OGG to OGA. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

the change is intentional, introduced by https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGadget-AjaxQuickDelete.js&diff=prev&oldid=79302108 .
as for why, i dont know exactly. RZuo (talk) 07:48, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Minor TMH improvements

I finally got around to doing some work on the timed text page logic and some of the points brought forward by people like @RZuo and @Jidanni. I plan to do further work as time permits me. I figured it was a good time to share some of the improvements that have recently been made in TMH.

  • There is now a File tab on TimedText pages, pointing you back to the corresponding file.
  • The TimedText tab is now either red or blue depending on if there are any subtitles
  • Several issues with redirects of either the file and/or the timedtextpage have been clarified with additional warnings
  • Error/warnings are no longer in the title of the page (we stopped doing this in the rest of MediaWiki quite some time ago, but TT was lagging behind)
  • Subtitle pages that don't have a corresponding file now show an error on the page.
  • Adding/deleting subtitle pages now purges the cache on Commons, so that pages using the video should show up with the right list of subtitle languages faster (global usage purging still to follow)
  • Moving a file should now re-queue the transcoding for the new files (this still needs to be tested on Commons, in case anyone wants to volunteer).
  • When you open the player on the file page of the file in question, you no longer get the Info button in the toolbar (you are already there).
  • bvibber has run the script to generate the streaming variants of all files, which means that videos should now work natively on all (supported) iOS devices and no longer require the javascript decoder.
  • WMF is preparing to move all transcoding into a separate transcoding Kubernetes service. No one should notice anything about this, but it will make it easier in the future to update the software pipeline and add capacity.

There is a lot more work to do, and progress is slow, but I hope that sharing this motivates people to keep working with audio and video. I'm always willing to listen and to file tickets, just know that often it will take me considerable amount of time to get around to more complex issues. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:13, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

thx a lot for improving the outdated interface. RZuo (talk) 16:38, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
@TheDJ: Yes, thanks!   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 23:44, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Category:Sweden Rock Festival 2023

Hello, I noticed that all the pics in this category are watermarked. Is it possible to mark them as watermarked by a bot?--Carnby (talk) 17:46, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I've started doing batch edits, will take a bit of time to complete. PascalHD (talk) 20:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
For the future, this is the kind of thing VFC does really well. - Jmabel ! talk 21:07, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Is there a way to do the batch edits without clicking "more" at the button a million times? Trade (talk) 07:14, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
technically you change default settings Help:VisualFileChange.js#Custom settings. use a bigger "amount of files to be loaded..." RZuo (talk) 07:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
@Trade: If you have saved your work and keep clicking or tapping the "down to the end" icon in the top right corner of File:VisualFileChange-2-select-action-append-any-text.png and your browser doesn't die from lack of memory, you can get up to 100 files listed per click/tap. This is not for the faint of heart. I recommend unchecking the "Load thumbnails" checkbox in the "More options" dialog (visible closed in File:VisualFileChange-1-2-select-category-from-drop-down.png) after the red action in File:Perform batch task.png to maximize your results.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 10:09, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Could you be more precise where the down to the end button is? Trade (talk) 22:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
@Trade: Please see the bottom circle in File:VisualFileChange-2-select-action-append-any-text-end-icon-circles.jpg.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 02:19, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Fix image

I noticed while browsing the English Wikipedia that this image is the wrong way around: life should be the broadest category and species the narrowest. Looking closer, the image was made to be the wrong way around about two or three days ago. Can someone fix this? 76.212.74.243 04:20, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Mrmw: You overwrote the file here. Was there a reason for reversing the order of the labels? From Hill To Shore (talk) 06:43, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
@From Hill To Shore: sry, fixed it, thx for telling --Mrmw (talk) 07:29, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Statistics for files on Wikimedia Commons

Hi everyone! I came across a tool called Glamorgan on Toolforge. If Commons has stats showing how many times articles with images are viewed, why not show these stats on every file page? --iMahesh (talk) 03:17, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

@IM3847: Why would we want to? Every additional piece of code added to a page makes it longer to load, and adds more cycles to the servers processing. There are plenty of scripts around that can through up stats for pages for those specifically interested in that aspect. For instance I can say that when I looked at this page its data is 172,899 revisions since 2004-09-07 (+5 minutes), 10,829 editors, 3,347 watchers, 30,651 pageviews (30 days), created by: Grunt~commonswiki (128) · See full page statistics plus from wikidata Wikidata: Project:Village pump (Q16503), central place for discussions about a wiki; page (usually with subpages) used to discuss technical issues, policies, and operations of a Wikimedia wiki Aliases: Travellers' pub, Simple talk, Travelers' pub, Wikipedia:Village pump, Wikiversity:Colloquium, Wikisource:Scriptorium, Wikiquote:Village pump, Wikibooks:Reading room, Wikinews:Water cooler, Wiktionary:Beer parlour, Wikidata:Project chat, Commons:Village pump, Project:Current issues, Meta:Babel, Wikispecies:Village Pump. Though all of that takes time to generate and comes after I load the page. These scripts I load that load that data I have run on every WMF page I view, or I can set them per wiki. Most others wouldn't give a toss about that information, and I only look at it some of the time. We all fall somewhere on spectrum.  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
GLAMs would probably appreciate stats for files they upload. As there's really no way of them knowing what impact their uploads have or where to put their focus. I have the same issue myself BTW. I much rather spend my time uploading images from a particular area that people are actually going to view and use, versus just wasting my time throwing darts at a board in the hopes someone somewhere is getting something out of my contributions. And yes, you can kind of do that with the "Page views for this category" template, but it's not really granular enough to be super helpful. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:51, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Hello @Billinghurst, Thank you for the information about load time; I hadn't considered that aspect. When hosting outreach activities in our country, we found that the primary concern among photographers was the lack of analytics on Commons. They were keen to understand the impact of their images, particularly in terms of views received. During our sessions, we realized that it would be very helpful to display the number of views an image has received at the top of the file. If this slows down the page load, we could consider adding a button labeled "Page Analytics" at the top. This button would only load the analytics if clicked. Unlike page view statistics, which users must manually enable, these Page Analytics could be viewed by anyone. We believe that this feature could have a significant impact on new contributors in countries like India, where there's a large number of photographers but less quality content on Commons. -- iMahesh (talk) 09:43, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
@Adamant1 and IM3847: There are links to individual statistics for every page to look at views, etc. from each page's history. If there are suggested links to be added via those pages then we can look at those. We also have xtools through WMF cloud which does analysis on page level. For overarching statistics, that has predominantly been something coordinated by/thru WMF as they have access to the big number crunching. It is usually something holistic for WMF, rather than at the miniutiae. I would suggest looking at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org and https://stats.wikimedia.org and https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ for some of the opportunities to look/play with data. Your people have the full opportunity to do their own analyses.  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
@Adamant1 @Billinghurst There is specifically for GLAMs the BaGlama2 tool. It shows for a category - for example "Images from the Hogwarts historic wizardry archive" - how often each image was viewed in which articles on the different WM projects for every month. Only: the tool stopped working more than a year ago. I brought this up in german wikipedia "Reparatursommmer" and @Magnus Manske claimed the project to repair. He made some changes and now the tool is displaying info again but all new data is "zero". So there is a tool aimed at GLAMs to show them how their content is actually used - but is does not work for over a year now. Oh well, maybe i can bingewatch some old films at wikiflix instead - that seems to actually work. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 13:21, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Yes @Billinghurst: We have tools for project views, but they didn't cover the views of images as good as this GLAMorgan. Having a tool that displays this data for an individual page directly at the top of the page would be preferable, similar to Xtools. Since Xtools adds load to the code running the page, this Image View Analytics could be implemented as a button. It would only activate if users click on it, ensuring that it doesn't impact page load unnecessarily (or) Xtools on Commons can display the number of views image got on Wikipedias and other sister projects. As of now it only shows views directly through Commons. This will also provide the user with his impact on Commons. Any thoughts on this? @C.Suthorn: & @Adamant1: --iMahesh (talk) 02:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
@IM3847: If added to Xtools, please make it optional and off by default, as I fear a large performance hit if we use it on everything in filespace and categoryspace.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 02:38, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
There's no reason it couldn't be a user setting that has to be enabled and/or just display the stats in the list of their uploader. I don't think it needs to be displayed on every page or in every category though. Especially if people can't toggle it off if they want to. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:40, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
@Adamant1: I agree! Adding a toggle for upload statistics would give users more control over their experience on the platform. Placing it either on the file page or the user uploads page sounds like a great idea to ensure easy access without cluttering other areas of the interface. --iMahesh (talk) 12:32, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
We already do indirectly. There is an "page information" link on file description pages. It leads you to a page that has a link to "Mediaviews Analysis" at the bottom. Enhancing999 (talk) 09:46, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguating two creators with the same name and profession

I want to set up a Creator page for Derrick Knight (Q82572767), a British filmmaker born in 1919. However, we also have Derrick Knight (Q116618831), a British filmmaker born in 1929. Thinking about how to avoid mixing these two up in the future, what is the best way to disambiguate them? For the 1919 one, I have set up Category:Derrick Knight (British Army filmmaker) as it is only his second world war work that is likely to be out of copyright for several decades. Should I follow the same logic and set Creator:Derrick Knight (British Army), use the birth year and set Creator:Derrick Knight (born 1919) or just keep it simple with Creator:Derrick Knight and worry about separating the two identities when we start gathering content made by the one born in 1929 (as he died in 2022, it could be 68 years before we obtain any of his work)? From Hill To Shore (talk) 12:05, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Creator:Hans-Rudolf Berner (1938-2013) uses years, though we don't have any other, but the name is not rare and the persons is mainly known for his works at Commons. Enhancing999 (talk) 12:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
@From Hill To Shore: I recommend years of life. Too many father-son combinations and common names to try and use occupation. Lots of them from the Wikisources have been done that way. They are typically not front facing, and are aligned with categories so that is sufficient to identify them.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
@From Hill To Shore: Consisdering the above discussion, is it alright if I rename Category:Derrick Knight (British Army filmmaker) to Category:Derrick Knight (1919–1994)? ReneeWrites (talk) 12:35, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Feel free. From Hill To Shore (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
✓ Done ReneeWrites (talk) 20:54, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Numerical sorting in categories

Numerical sorting in categories is currently not enabled on Commons. This means that categories sort 1 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 20 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 unless you specifically add leading zeroes to the filename or sortkey. Should we enable numerical sorting? --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 23:22, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes we should. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
I agree.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 09:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Do we know which categories it would impact?
Supposedly many categories have a workaround in place and would that break? Enhancing999 (talk) 10:22, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Just noticed that @AnRo0002: changed mine at [1]. Supposedly workarounds would just keep working. Enhancing999 (talk) 10:24, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Presumably the two workarounds are overt cat sorting and numbering like "001", "002", … "009", "010", etc. Both of these would still be fine if we turn on numerical sorting. @Enhancing999: are you aware of something that would break? - Jmabel ! talk 14:41, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
My question above. In the meta page it says that some wikis may have to rework all their (manual) sorting. @AntiCompositeNumber can you help? Enhancing999 (talk) 17:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
@Enhancing999 My understanding is that Commons has never made widespread use of dewiki-style sortkey hacks. Dewiki uses a number of :s in front of the number, such as #:::100 Coco and #:9 Tage wach to get 100 Coco to sort after 9 Tage wach. Commons typically has used leading zeroes for this, and leading zeroes don't need to be changed because they do not affect the sort order in numeric sort. It looks like there are some categories on Commons using dewiki-style sortkeys, but I don't expect it to be common. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 20:21, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
A lot of "Old maps of..."-categories include sortkeys by year (like "Category:19th-century maps of Silesia|1876"), but that's not something that will break if numerical sorting gets enabled. Another method of sort-key-ing that is often employed (not just by me) is to place a space before the key (like "Category:Book name| ") so that the file with a title page is displayed as the first one in a category of page scans. Some other people use ".", "+" or "*" for much the same effect. These sort-keys should be respected by the new setting, too. --Enyavar (talk) 20:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
There is an entire tree by number at Category:Categories by quantity. Enhancing999 (talk) 21:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 Support. There have been (at least) two previous discussions of this, at Commons:Village pump/Archive/2016/05#Numerical sorting in categories and Commons:Village pump/Archive/2016/11#Numerical sorting. Neither of them reached a consensus in favour, but neither came up with any strong reasons not to do it. For me, not having to put leading zeroes in sort keys would be a definite improvement, so I'm in favour.
One thing to note is that this will change the format of the sortkey returned by mw:API:Categorymembers and the cl_sortkey field of the mw:Manual:categorylinks table. That will be a problem if any software is making (unwarranted) assumptions about the format of those rather than using the corresponding sortkeyprefix. Another possible downside is that items whose sort keys begin with digits will appear under a single 0–9 heading rather than under separate headings for each leading digit. I don't think either of those is a big enough problem not to make the change. --bjh21 (talk) 21:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Spoilers in categories and file titles

Do i have to avoid those? What does the guidelines say? --Trade (talk) 22:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we need to propagate a bunch of formal rules, but obviously if you can avoid spoilers, avoid them. - Jmabel ! talk 08:35, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Could you give an example? ReneeWrites (talk) 12:44, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Eren Yeager is unknowingly the Category:Attack Titan but this is not revealed until several episodes later. The first category is currently a parent category of the second Trade (talk) 07:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Proposal for NoFoP-Russia template

I am proposing to change {{NoFoP-Russia}} template into a category-exclusive template only, to be placed on top of categories like Category:Bust of Jean Sibelius in Pskov. This is to pattern after {{NoFoP-Japan}}, which is a category-only template from the beginning, as well as the more-recent category-only templates like {{NoFoP-US}}, {{NoFoP-Denmark}}, and {{NoFoP-Finland}}.

This may need some discussion as it involves removal of the template from hundreds of tagged files once it is converted to becoming a category-exclusive template. A suggested replacement may be {{De minimis}} but it is too general and also includes uses in images that may incidentally or trivially show album covers, book covers et cetera. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 04:00, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

This is a pretty big change. You should probably should post a note on the talk page for {{NoFoP-Russia}} pointing to this discussion. In principle I think your proposal is fine. If you switch it to category use only, the template should definitely be modified to show a red usage error note in file namespace, as it will probably take some time before users familiar with the current template behavior adapt to your change. In addition, if you want to do this you should commit to going through the existing uses of the template in file namespace and either: (1) nominating for deletion cases depictions of copyrighted artwork and sculptures that are not de minimis, (2) replacing {{NoFoP-Russia}} with {{De minimis}} where the depictions of copyrighted artwork and sculptures are de minimis, or (3) removing {{NoFoP-Russia}} where any depiction of copyrighted works is entirely trivial. —RP88 (talk) 18:10, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Featured media candidates

Hi, Commons:Featured media candidates/candidate list‎ needs more eyes. Please have a look. Yann (talk) 14:23, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

There are 48 entries, but 43 have "Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes." Enhancing999 (talk) 14:30, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
The bot is down. The entries have to be sorted out manually, and it is a pain. Yann (talk) 12:38, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Depicts tags by campaign300@ISA

For a few weeks I've noticed a bombing of pretty crappy tag-depicts on hundreds of files in my watchlist. [2], [3]. How does this benefit the project? ¿Hay alguien a los mandos? Is this "campaign" completely machine-guided? Is structured data intended for generic tags? Strakhov (talk) 14:27, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Commons:ISA Tool seems decent. i think it's more of a problem of the user. RZuo (talk) 17:13, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Depictor edits are usually pretty good, in my experience. On the contrary, ISA Tool edits are almost always crap like this (not only this user). Strakhov (talk) 17:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
they go by different design. isa is more like a tool for tagging depicts for related files consecutively. its depicts interface looks just like the one on commons pages, so it depends on the user to find the suitable item.
depictor is asking whether files in a category depict the topic of that category. RZuo (talk) 20:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
(1) Revert the bad edits. (2) If you are inclined, add appropriate "depicts," but don't feel obligated. (3) Report this crap at Commons talk:ISA Tool. - Jmabel ! talk 20:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

File:Kratky, Frantisek - Rjeka, albanska matka (1897).jpg

Hi, From which country is this picture? Categories seem contradictory: Albanians in Croatia taken by a Czech photographer. Yann (talk) 20:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

With the current details it will be difficult to say. Modern day Czech Republic and Croatia were part of Austria-Hungary in 1900. Modern day Albania was in the Ottoman Empire at the time. Ethnic groups with no national boundaries were likely spread around the region. It could be an ethnic Albanian family that was living in Austria-Hungary or a photographer from Austria Hungary may have been travelling in Ottoman lands. A Google translation of the source page isn't much help; it says the photographer travelled a lot and took pictures in multiple countries around Europe until he married and settled down in 1898. From Hill To Shore (talk) 21:06, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Doesn't the title mean it was taken in en:Rijeka? --Joostik (talk) 11:53, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
My comment was from the perspective of what is visible in the image and stated in the source. Beyond the file name chosen by the uploader, there is nothing to say that these are Albanians in a specific location. The uploader may have had access to additional source information to choose that name. On the other hand, there is nothing to support Yann's suspicions of a contradiction. It is entirely plausible for the three factors of an ethnic Albanian family living in the vicinity of modern Croatia and being photographed by an ethnic Czech photographer (who the source says was known to travel around the region) to have occurred. From Hill To Shore (talk) 12:36, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jedudedek: at first? (Probably the image was taken by the Czech photographer, there is an Albanian mother and it was taken in a vicinity of a place called Rjeka. – I doesn't have to be Rijeka, Rjeka means "river" in Southern Slavic languages, so it can mean many places.) — Draceane talkcontrib. 21:11, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Guidelines for who can create templates and under what circumstances

Hi. I was wondering, are there any kind of guideline or guidance on who can templates and under circumstances they can be created for? I ask because there's an editor with only 60 edits who created a template recently for a fairly niche subject area. Which seems like an extremely low amounts of edits to be creating templates at this point. Especially considering the oddly specific thing they are creating it for. Thanks. Adamant1 (talk) 00:03, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

There is no hard and fast rule, and there shouldn't be. A template expert from Wikipedia could easily and appropriately have the creation of a template be their first edit on Commons.
Without specifics, there is no way to comment on whether the specific template is appropriate. - Jmabel ! talk 00:58, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: Yeah well, I was trying to keep it as a general question since I already have a couple of other rather personal discussions going on. That said, it's Template:Four stamps block (type 1). I asked the user who created it what the purpose of it is but they haven't replied. I can't image a template being necessary or useful for something that niche though. Mostly it just seems like a way for the user to push their own personal, preferred way of doing things on everyone else since it appears to be very German specific, but can still be used on other images of "Four stamps block (type 1)"s. Whatever those are. One of the issues I have with the template is that there are no hard and fast standards for stamp classifications and they can be different depending on the country or culture. So having a template for "Four stamps block (type 1)"s seems kind of pointless to begin with whatever the user's motivation for creating it was. --Adamant1 (talk) 01:21, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: I have already had issue with Mwbas attempting to delete their redirect, badly.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 02:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jeff G.: my remark was entirely addressed to the general question, not the specific case. If there is a problem with a particular template, that is a completely different matter than whether you should need a particular number of edits to make a template. - Jmabel ! talk 17:25, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: Fine, I've created Commons:Deletion requests/Template:Stamp of default country to address the specific case. @Adamant1: FYI.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 11:29, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Request from OperationSakura6144

I'm User:OperationSakura6144. I need to replace File:Flag of Gyoda Saitama.JPG with File:Flag of Gyoda, Saitama.svg in the English Wikipedia. Please help me in that. I would like you to succeed in that. I count in you all.

Edit: Why did you archive my topic? Let me know why? OperationSakura6144 (talk) 12:34, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

OK, but File:Flag of Gyoda Saitama.JPG is not replaced with File:Flag of Gyoda, Saitama.svg yet. Why is this so? Is the process taking late or are users not interested in replacing old images with vector ones? I need an answer now. OperationSakura6144 (talk) 14:51, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I have checked back through the archives and the only topic of yours that was flagged for archiving manually (by me in that instance) was where you had posted duplicate messages. The duplicate was prioritised for archiving while the other would remain open. However, all topics get archived automatically if there are no new comments for a period of time. So, most of your topics were archived automatically because the conversations ended. From Hill To Shore (talk)`
@OperationSakura6144: I've been traveling for 5 weeks, so I'm only just getting back ere but it looks to me like you've singlehandedly decided there is a problem and that you have the solution, and repeatedly hectored people to get on it immediately, without any step of building any consensus beyond yourself that it is even important. It does not surprise me that no one is jumping to drop what they are doing to help you. - Jmabel ! talk 20:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I have tried COM:DL, but it didn't help me because it states: "No replacement of images in other formats with SVGs. To avoid World War III, CommonsDelinker will ignore a command to replace an image if the new image is in an SVG format and the original is not." which is absurd. Why would WWIII happen just because by replacing images of old format with vector images?! OperationSakura6144 (talk) 01:06, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Special:CentralAuth/OperationSakura6144 is rather strange. it seems this user has successfully avoided opening enwp pages while logged in, so there's no account on enwp. or...? RZuo (talk) 20:19, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Let me explain. I couldn't edit the English Wikipedia because my IP address got blocked there, because they thought me as a proxy/VPN user. I've made appeals to unblock but all failed, because the people in the English Wikipedia still think me as a proxy/VPN user. Now, I'm expecting you to do this thing for me. Do it if you can or ignore it. OperationSakura6144 (talk) 01:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption#Used_for_anonymous_proxy_editing
do this yourself or stop complaining. RZuo (talk) 17:35, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Making CC BY-SA 3.x/GFDL files available under CC BY-SA 4.0

Apropos of this discussion I ask myself what I can do to make it easier to (re)use my files and photographs correctly. Some of them are still licensed under GFDL + CC BY-SA-3.0 just because this combination was the suggested default licensing when I uploaded these files. I would like to allow people to use all/most of these files under CC BY-SA 4.0, too. What is the correct way to achieve this? I do not want to remove/replace the old licenses (a) because I guess that would be problematic from a legal point of view and (b) because this would confuse people who already use one of these files under such a license. Can I just add CC BY-SA 4.0 as an additional option, preferrably by using {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-3.0|cc-by-sa-4.0|migration=redundant}}? Or is there a legal or technical problem when I add that additional license now? Thank you very much for your input! – Aristeas (talk) 15:42, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

If you are the owner of the copyright to a file you are free to add additional license choices, if you so choose. Your suggested wiki markup is fine. You're probably aware, but for clarity, the reverse is not true. The Creative Commons licenses are irrevocable, you can't, for example, tell a user who previously obtained your file under the terms of CC BY-SA-3.0 that if they want to continue using it they must use it under the terms of CC BY-SA 4.0. —RP88 (talk) 16:38, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
That’s great. Thank you very much for your input, RP88! Yes, I am aware that CC licenses are irrevocable (this is what my loose wording “would be problematic from a legal point of view” wanted to say). – I posted the question here because it was stimulated by the aforementioned VP discussion and I thought that it would be of interest also for other contributors who still have GFDL + CC BY-SA-3.0 or even CC BY-SA-2.x files; sorry if my wording was too vague and personal. Best, – Aristeas (talk) 19:01, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
@Aristeas: I use the following: I agree to [[w:Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages (which are licensed under the [[w:GNU Free Documentation License|GFDL]] 1.2 only), as described below along with all future CC-BY-SA licenses: :::{{self|GFDL|Cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0|migration=redundant}}   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 23:42, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jeff G.: That’s another excellent solution, thank you very much! So people can choose which solution fits them better.
BTW, I have learned that it is even possible to write {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}}. This is useful if somebody wants to publish a file explicitly under any CC BY-SA license. Personally I feel a bit uncomfortable about this because it seems a bit odd to me to allow the use even of not-yet-existing licenses; therefore I would prefer Jeff’s code which explicitly mentions the versions of the license. But if one really wants any CC BY-SA license, cc-by-sa-all is the shortest and most general solution.
As a sidenote, Jeff’s code example shows that my lengthy {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-3.0|cc-by-sa-4.0|migration=redundant}} can be abbreviated to {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0|migration=redundant}}. This also results in a more compact display: instead of creating a separate box for every version of CC BY-SA, the template geneates a single box which mentions all versions. Best, – Aristeas (talk) 09:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
@Aristeas: You're welcome!   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 09:42, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Christian religious art question

Can anyone work out what scenes are represented by the two panels here? The full predella might provide useful context, though I doubt it. - Jmabel ! talk 14:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Also (tangentially related) I'm sure someone could do a better job than I of adding additional categories to the images in Category:Altarpiece of the Corpus Christi (Vallbona de les Monges), related to what is represented in each panel. - Jmabel ! talk 20:27, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

These are two Eucharistic miracles for which there are numerous versions from the Middle Ages. In both cases, an individual steals a consecrated host to enhance their honey production/fishing. Each time, a miracle occurs: the bees build a church of wax around the host/the fish bring back the host to the priest. Identifying the saint depicted would provide further information. Ayack (talk) 22:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Page 84-86 of this document and this website provide some more background. Category:Host desecration or its subcategories seem appropriate. --HyperGaruda (talk) 09:27, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
@HyperGaruda: thank you, Category:Host desecration is exactly what I was not finding. It is buried so far from Category:Eucharist that I didn't turn it up. - Jmabel ! talk 14:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Discussion about new tool for detecting logos

We're having a discussion at the Technical Village Pump about a new tool for detecting logos. Our intention is for you to discuss if it could be of use for the community and then, if consensus is reached, to integrate the tool in UploadWizard, in a way that would be beneficial for moderation workflow. If you're interested in the topic, please have your say! Sannita (WMF) (talk) 10:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

COM:FOP in the Netherlands?

I was reading up on FOP in the Netherlands, which allows photos in "public spaces", and specifically excludes interiors of museums. Yet almost every Dutch museum has an interior subcategory that all taken together contain thousands of photographs. Am I missing something here? Shouldn't those pictures be deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.97.65.18 (talk) 20:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

If the objects are public domain and if the photographs of public domain 3D objects are freely licensed, I don't see an issue. Although sometimes things just fall through the cracks so if you find a particular object that isn't PD, feel free to start a DR of that file. Abzeronow (talk) 20:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
@Abzeronow@212.97.65.18: if the radical change in FoP proposal (as seen in the thread above) pushes through, then the Netherlands FoP is going to be disregarded (only U.S. FoP now), so this question on Dutch museums is pointless now. Some artworks in those museums may be P.D. in the Netherlands but must be deleted because they are still copyrighted in the U.S. (those post-1928), so again the IP user's concern may be of no use very soon. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 21:50, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
@JWilz12345: You seem to be arguing that because some people are having a discussion that shows no sign of reaching consensus, and hasn't even reached the level of a formal proposal, it is pointless to concern ourselves with current policy for a matter that would be unaffected by the outcome of that discussion. It would be unaffected because this matter has nothing to do with FoP (there is no indoor FoP in the Netherlands) and both under the current policy and the proposed policy, when FoP doesn't come into play we don't host artworks that are copyrighted in the U.S., regardless of their status in the country where they were photographed. And, yes, that is hard to follow—in fact, it adds up to nonsense—but I think it is an accurate paraphrase of what you said. If you think I'm wrong here, please be specific about how. - Jmabel ! talk 02:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel just one expression of my apparent frustration on what is happening here, that the status quo that has kept the project's FoP policy relatively intact and favorable to more visitors (more visitors are from countries with FoP than those with no FoP) is going to be shattered into pieces in an instant, by the desire to comply legal obligations and the desire to use "shortcut" approach in hosting Burj Khalifa pictures and other images of buildings from no-FoP countries. In fact, the events here may force me to recalibrate my Philippine FoP advocacy, because even if it becomes introduced here (let's say around 2025 or 2026), Philippine FoP is going to be disregarded by Commons anyway. Even Philippine-language Wikipedias cannot benefit Philippine FoP (following the arguments of D. Benjamin Miller) because those are not hosted here, but in the United States. My apology if I made some comment on this thread out of apparent frustration. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 04:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
@JWilz12345: I'm (relatively) glad to hear that is mostly just frustration, but I really can't imagine why you think a position advocated by about three people (at least one of whom apparently can't distinguish between what is legal for Commons and for a commercial site), is assured of carrying the day, especially when it would represent a change from a policy that has stood for just shy of two decades. Please, when people come here with a question about current policy, don't confuse them with the fact that things might change. Things always might change, in any direction, but this was really more of a "help desk" type of question, and should have been handled accordingly. - Jmabel ! talk 04:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
The WMF has (rather good) lawyers. If they believe major, longstanding Commons policy were illegal, we would long since have heard that from them. - Jmabel ! talk 04:27, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel noted. But I would rather not post at Help Desk. I would rather let a major RfC page (standalone page just like the debate that eventually led to the creation of {{Not-free-US-FOP}}) be started and I would reiterate my stance there. WMF peeps may also chime in on that potential RfC. Not appropriate to post at Help desk at this moment since I am aware of "forum shopping" infraction. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 04:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
@JWilz12345: no, no, I was saying that 212.97.65.18's question was basically a help desk question, and we should not confuse people who ask for simple help with a bunch of meta-issues. - 04:34, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel noted. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 05:23, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Abzeronow (talk) 20:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Why does my PDF have dimensions 0×0?

I uploaded File:De proprietatibus rerum - deproprietatibu00bart.pdf the other day. Why does it show as having dimensions 0x0 with no thumbnail? It works locally. Marnanel (talk) 23:48, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Typically this means the pdfinfo command line tool has trouble reading the file. Bawolff (talk) 00:45, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
It does show dimensions and thumbs (at least now). It has a large number of pages and a large number of meta info entries. Maybe it took unusually long to update? C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 03:27, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
OK for me now. Yann (talk) 08:46, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks all! Marnanel (talk) 18:21, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

POV image description

A talk page entry at Wikipedia here brings up an issue with a POV image description. Any ideas what to do about this would be appreciated, thank you. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 07:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm just passing through at the moment, but at the very least add {{Fact disputed}}. I believe that the word "terrorists" and its Hebrew equivalent should be removed from that page entirely. I have rarely seen a less appropriate description anywhere. (Probably more to be done than that, but I'm on my way out a door.) - Jmabel ! talk 07:40, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
I've now added a "fact disputed" tag with the note, "It should be needless to say that the IDF's characterization of the hospital as a "terror headquarters" is contentious at best, and the notion that everyone killed or arrested was terrorist is absurd." - Jmabel ! talk 08:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
remove that bullshit completely and replace it with the description of whats in the image which in this case is the name of the said Hospital and if they persist, then we no longer accept images from them at all. Just because the image is released freely doesn't mean we should use it if its used for their own personal propaganda...we now need to check every images uploaded from that site to see if the description for every image uploaded isn't more propaganda. Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral (even though we aren't but we need to continue with that "facade" or we will no longer be recognized as a neutral and reliable source).... Stemoc 12:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for looking into this. The issue extends to the rest of the files in Category:Operation Local Surgery, with the same phrasing used on those twelve files. Richard Nevell (talk) 17:23, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
I think this is once more a case showing why we should make "original description/title" like it is used in {{BArch-image}} a standard value of the general {{Information}} template. GPSLeo (talk) 17:48, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
yes. i just wanted to raise this problem.
{{Information}} and com:sdc should have dedicated fields for original accompanying texts provided by the creators of the files.
all texts should be preserved as is. RZuo (talk) 19:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Commons does have a NPOV policy, which includes neutrality of description should be aimed at wherever possible. There are a few ways to do so: remove the contentious claims or attribute the claims to the IDF. In this case, I'd be inclined to remove the claims, since they are only there for context and do not actually describe anything in the image itself. In fact, nothing in the description describes the actual image. I see what looks like a tank and a damaged medical building. Oddly, I can't find an image oF Shifa Hospital that looks like that (the curved facade, etc.) -- are we certain that's what's in the frame? There's no caption in the source document. Also, we should probably ping the uploader, MathKnight. — Rhododendrites talk |  19:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
noticed he has been pushing this propaganda (for a better word) for a while now even making such claims on other wikis including enwiki and i can see he is a sysop on the Hebrew wiki thus his bias. I remember we banned a few Russian posters last year when they were doing the exact same thing during the Ukraine-Russia conflict by pushing the Russian agenda and yes a lot of those images added by him have the same biased description. This needs to be fixed ASAP IMO and i generally don't care what the VRT ticket allows because we need to uphold our own NPOV policy first. I'm in favour of blacklisting that website if every description listed on their images is blatant propaganda and bullshit... Stemoc 22:06, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
since the user is still actively editing hebrew wiki and made edits to enwiki even after this discussion was brought up and hasn't posted here, one can assume he doesn't care...I propose we delete the description of every image related to this current war, english and hebrew and maybe start a discussion on blacklisting the IDF website and removing all their images from commons. We can't have 2 standards for when russian editors do this and another set for Israeli ones and also ban MathKnight from commons. We cannot have propaganda pushing people actively promoting disinformation on commons as images here get used across wikimedia wikis... Stemoc 00:43, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
@Stemoc: I'm about halfway with you. No reason not to accept the images, we can just rewrite titles and descriptions.
He's not required to respond to a discussion on the Village pump, but you can start one at COM:AN/U and notify him accordingly. If he won't agree there to stop POV-pushing then, yes, some sanction is in order (at least a topic ban, maybe more). - Jmabel ! talk 13:59, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
@Rhododendrites: regarding the building with curved façade, it seems to be located just across the road (31.5236°N, 34.4421°E), but is itself probably not part of the hospital. The vehicle and shed in the foreground do seem to be situated on the hospital grounds. I've added the camera coordinates to the file page as accurately as I could deduce from aerial imagery. --HyperGaruda (talk) 07:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
File:Operation-Local-Surgery 2024-03-30 at 18-11-25.jpg also - and several others. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
I feel like COM:AN is a more suitable avenue to discuss this than the Village Pump. ReneeWrites (talk) 12:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
For the record, we have many descriptions with the Russian propaganda e.g. here. I remember that there were some discussions but I cannot recall the outcome. — Draceane talkcontrib. 21:08, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Possible way to address this

I think those two edits of mine should sufficiently address the problem, and would suggest doing the same on other files with similar issues (Israeli, Russian, whatever). - Jmabel ! talk 14:40, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I prefer the latter, labelling the "Original description" as such. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:20, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I think the image descriptions should only pertain to what they show. It's an armored vehicle in front of the ruins of a destroyed hospital. You could also mention the Al-Shifa raid the vehicle was involved in, resulting in the ruined hospital. There are no 200 deaths and 500 arrests in that image (numbers that aren't even independently verified).
I'm also iffy on letting the non-NPOV description stand even if it's with a disclaimer; placing undue value on the original uploader's description is not something we do in any other area of Commons, and if we treat this as if it's official policy it's one that's very easy to abuse. ReneeWrites (talk) 18:27, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I just added a disclaimer to all images in that category, pending a better description. Yann (talk) 18:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Potential identification issue with photos from commanster.eu

From what I'm aware, many pictures of species from James Lindsey's Ecology of Commanster website were uploaded to Commons way back in 2007-2009 or so. These are all listed in the category Category:Pictures by James Lindsey (as well as Category:Nature of Commanster and its subcategories). However, I've been discovering over the last few months that with regards to insects at least, at least some of them in Lindsey's photos have been misidentified: it turns out that Lindsey's website now gives different identifications for these insects, but for the most part they have not been updated on Commons correspondingly. So far that I've seen, some of the new IDs for Lindsey's photos are consistent with other photos ID'd as the same species on external websites and other photos uploaded to Commons, so they seem to be correct as far as I can tell.

Here are some examples of what I'm talking about:

In each case, I found the website's current ID for each insect by simply reverse-searching the images on Google, clicking "Find image source", and looking for a commanster.eu web page that has the same image if its available.

A few other notes I should make here:

  • Because these images are so old, they not only may be the oldest images available on Commons for many species, but they have also often been used as representative images for these species in Wikipedia (regardless of language), Wikidata and Wikispecies. They also may be representative images for genera, subfamilies, families, etc.
  • I believe this issue probably applies to far more than just the dozen or so insects I've spotted misidentifications in so far: the commanster.eu website has a Caveat page warning about identification errors, particularly for arthropods and fungi. This means that the IDs given by Lindsey for some groups of organisms are not reliable, and therefore many of his images of those groups uploaded to Commons could have wrong IDs and need renaming.
  • The Category:Pictures by James Lindsey category includes 5,805 images total, which is far too much for one user alone to sift through.

So, I need other users to help double check photos from commanster.eu uploaded to Commons, correct them if needed, and also fix references to them across Wikimedia. Like Lindsey himself, I don't have any expertise in any field of biology either, not even in insects particularly (despite how often I edit pages to do with them). Monster Iestyn (talk) 16:11, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

@Monster Iestyn: You might want to cross-post at en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Insects. - Jmabel ! talk 17:57, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: Thanks for the suggestion. While I did originally make this with insects in mind, half way into writing the start of this discussion I started wondering if this issue goes beyond insects to other arthropods and maybe even plants/fungi, since the photos from Lindsey's site also includes those. Monster Iestyn (talk) 18:26, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
@Monster Iestyn: I imagine that for each, there is some relevant WikiProject. - Jmabel ! talk 18:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: There, cross-posted at both en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Insects and en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life. Monster Iestyn (talk) 18:39, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Do we have a bot that could fix it? It would be easier if the images had an image number and would link directly to the source. Enhancing999 (talk) 19:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
@Enhancing999 Doesn't look like they have numbers, at least on the website. Unfortunately all of these just sourced the website's main page to my knowledge (standards for sourcing may have been different 15 years ago, I have no idea). Additionally, some of the insect photos at least don't seem to exist on the website anymore, or at least Google's reverse-search for images doesn't work as expected for them, e.g.: File:Rhaphium.elegantulum9.-.lindsey.jpg, File:Rhaphium.riparium.-.lindsey.jpg and File:Rhaphium.riparium9.-.lindsey.jpg. Monster Iestyn (talk) 19:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
The bot would have to load each file and try to to a comparison to the ones here. Enhancing999 (talk) 19:57, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Quite a few of these photos appear as the main image on Wikidata or Wikipedia pages. Those should be our first priority. I'll see if I can throw together a script. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 20:39, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Small update: I've since learned that some of these photos may also be uploaded twice but with different IDs, sometimes placing the insects in the photos in different families. For instance, File:Apteropeda.orbiculata.jpg uploaded in 2007, then was uploaded again in 2009 as File:Olibrus.flavicornis.-.lindsey.jpg (also the ID of the beetle according to [9]). Another example is that File:Crumomyia.nitida.jpg was uploaded in 2007, and was uploaded again in File:Hydrophorus.balticus.-.lindsey.jpg, but I cannot find what the website calls this fly now. In both cases, the image is also used to represent both species on Wikidata. In the case of 2007's File:Crepidodera.aurata.jpg (File:Crepidodera.aurata cropped.jpg is a cropped version) and 2009's File:Crepidodera.fulvicornis.-.lindsey.jpg however, the website now calls the species in the photo yet another name, Chaetocnema obesa, according to [10]. Monster Iestyn (talk) 01:14, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikimedia Summit

Reminder that the Wikimedia Summit in Berlin begins a week from now, with the intention of adopting the meta:Movement Charter. I'll be there to represent Cascadia Wikimedians but I have their permission to represent concerns from the Commons community, so if anyone has something they want me to bring up, please let me know.

The main concern I intend to bring on behalf of Commons is that (1) the proposed governance structure is overly tilted toward affiliates and hence is almost guaranteed to under-represent those whose participation is strictly online, which I believe is the case for the majority of Commoners. The other concerns I intend to bring up (a bit more peripheral to the formal agenda, but I believe that a lot of the people to whom this concern needs to be brought will be there) are that (2) WMF's technical support and development priorities for Commons have too often been driven by what someone at WMF thinks would be nifty and too little by what the Commons community actually wants or needs and (3) the development approaches of that team have been insufficiently agile, not even approaching the agility of our volunteer developers. On that last, it seems that no feature, no matter how trivial, can happen with less than half a year elapsing between request and completion, and that even simple bug fixes can take months. Also, that when it becomes dead clear that they are going the wrong way (e.g. the ill-fated "suggested edits" on the Android app [and, by the way, I see that page has not been updated to indicate that this was a failure and has been turned off]), it can take literally years for them to turn around, not to mention multiple person-months of paid staff time to perform a formal study to come to confirm the Commons community's uniform feedback that this "feature" was a liability.

Are there other concerns I should equally be bringing in? Does anyone strongly disagree with any of these three? - Jmabel ! talk 19:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Your points are very valid. Another issue is that is does not seem like anybody from the technical team is formally assigned to go through items like the "Village pump/Technical" on Commons. Questions can remain unanswered for long periods of time. Cheers Rsteen (talk) 03:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
About (3): a request to WMF can be answered with: "this is not in the budget of the current business year, we have to wait for the next business year". Maybe there should be an accrual for unexpected software projects.
I have learnt that WMDE has 160 paid employees and I feel a discrepancy between the high number of employees and the little visible results of their work. I don't know the figure for WMF, but maybe it's similar there? C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 03:41, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Allegedly WMF had ~700 employees at the start of 2023 (however they laid off some since then. Possibly they also have not been replacing some of the turn over so it might be lower now). I don't know if i would say lack of agile is neccesarily the problem - teams are reasonably agile within their assigned domains. The part that is problematic is anything between the cracks of assigned domains is utterly ignored, and the cracks are very large. Bawolff (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi Jmabel,
as member in the drafting committee I will also be in Berlin next week, and I would be very happy to talk through the concerns you see in the current Charter draft - and maybe those of others here in the Village Pump as well - and see how we can improve the Charter. As it is proposed now the minority of the Global Council will come from affiliates, and even in affiliates there are a lot of volunteers that come from the projects and hold board positions, but that does not mean there isn't room for improvement and an even better representation from across the communities and online projects. Looking forward to have our conversation in person! Ciell (talk) 16:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
@Ciell: I very much look forward to having a chance to talk. I'm arriving Wednesday, roughly mid-day. When are you arriving? Can we set up a time to talk? Feel free to contact me more privately (you can email through my account here). - Jmabel ! talk 19:43, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: I will be arriving on Tuesday because the MCDC has 2 days of preparation in Berlin ahead of the Summit. We are all in the same hotel though, and will walking around throughout the Summit to answer questions and hear your feedback, so I am sure we'll have plenty of time to talk. Wishing you safe travels! Ciell (talk) 13:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

djvu is tiny and in the corner

I have just uploaded File:De proprietatibus rerum.djvu using the IA-upload bot. All the page images are tiny and in the lower left corner of each page. Did I do something wrong? Marnanel (talk) 21:10, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Fixed manually now. If anyone knows what the problem was, I'd still like to hear! Marnanel (talk) 20:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

New cats for computer hardware by year

Hi!

I thought about creating cats like "Microprocessors by year (of release)" or "Video cards by year (of release)" to make it easier to find processing units in less or more recent years. Does it make sense to create those cats (with subcats like 2024 microprocessors etc.).

Thanks! --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 09:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion this makes much more sense than many other categories we already have. -- Herbert Ortner (talk) 09:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
You could just create Category:Microprocessors by year. I don't think the "(of release)" thing is neccesary. That's not how we name other "by year" categories for products anyway. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
But there should be a warning template to only place photos of objects released in this year. GPSLeo (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
I think the "of release" is necessary based on the other year categories we have on this site, you will end up with cats full by date taken, template or not Oxyman (talk) 14:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
@Oxyman: Which other categories are you talking about? If you look at similar "by year" categories for products no one thinks they have anything to do with dates the pictures were taken. Just to point out a few, Category:Postcards by year, Category:Films by year, Category:Video games by year, Etc. Etc. No one is confused that an image of a postcard in Category:1947 postcards was scanned or photographed in 1947 instead of it being the presumed year of publication. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I notice that in the examples you give the we are just recreating original artwork (by scanning etc) rather then creating new images, I have a preference for a reasonably descriptive cat name, But I am prepared to concede I may be wrong on this occasion, I'm not overly concerned about this, so go ahead and do what you think best Oxyman (talk) 23:58, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I did some research and the year is usually linked with the year of completion for buildings, and films by year for example refer to the date when they were shown in cinemas. TLoZ: Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild were developed over 6 years or so. Similar cases are in Category:Introductions by year, Category:Buildings by year of completion. I assume that people will look in "2023 microprocessors" for CPUs that were released in 2023 (and available in markets, shops etc.; similar to the cases mentioned above). If we want to pick up "different years", then they could be added to the category name. --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 16:43, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Productions by year covers cameras, game consoles and smartphones by year, linked availability to the public --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 16:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
You'll need to be pretty specific about what "year of release" means here. Does it mean:
  1. The year that the exact microprocessor seen in the photograph was manufactured?
  2. The year that the manufacturer first sold microprocessors with that part number, speed, and package?
  3. The year that the manufacturer first sold microprocessors with that part number?
  4. The year that any manufacturer first sold that microprocessor?
  5. The year that any microprocessor in the overall family was first sold?
  6. The year that any microprocessor using that CPU architecture was sold?
For example: here is a photo of a Rockwell R65C02J3. According to its date code, it was made in 1987. Rockwell produced the R65C02 starting in 1983; for the sake of argument, let's also imagine that they only produced the J3 variant (3 MHz, plastic PLCC) starting in 1985. The 65C02 is a variant of the 6502, which was released in 1975. Given all of this information, what would its "year of release" be?
Omphalographer (talk) 20:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Omphalographer: Thank you for this hint! I would suggest the year where the product came into the markets/shops, because it may be easier to find out. The Threadripper 7970X as a recent example has "© 2022" written on its heatspreader, but was released in November 2023 for customers, so I would suggest 2023 as date here --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 07:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Is there any reason that information can't just be a note in the category itself instead of being included in the name of the category though? Generally we are suppose to following naming conventions for other categories, and as I've pointed out already other category names don't contain "(of release) or whatever and seem to get along perfectly fine without it. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I am okay with both cases --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 13:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
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